Neko Case: On Depression and Bathroom Grouting (Interview)

Neko Case releases her new album tomorrow. With the rather unwieldy title of , The Worse Things Get, The Harder I Fight, The More I Love You, its the follow-up to her very successful 2009 album, Middle Cyclone.

As The 13th Floor discovered when we spoke to her recently, Neko has been through something of a rough patch. The new album finds her in good sorts surrounded by the likes of M. Ward, Jim James, AC Newman and Howe Gelb, all of whom contributed to The Worse Things Get…

So, listen in to the interview with Neko Case here:

 

Or, read a transcription of the interview here:

MD: It’s been four years since your previous album, and I was going to ask what you had been up too in the past four years, and then I found this quote; “Four years of my life took ten years hostage, and then gave me back twelve”, and I was wondering what that meant?

NC: I, kinda had a serious bout of depression for there a while, which is why this record took so long, cos I lost a lot of family in the last ten years, and I didn’t really, ya know, stop, to process any grief, I just kept going. I didn’t really acknowledge it, and then my body just finally said ‘alright, gotta deal with this’. And, I got really sad, and it wasn’t anything unusual, that everybody doesn’t go through, it totally was, but, I had to, I just had to let it process.

M: And did that process manifest itself in your songwriting?

NC: Umm… Well, not like I kept writing the whole time, umm, because I just do it. You know I, it wasn’t a cathartic experience, in so much as it was a crappy experience. And the writing wasn’t crappy, but ya know, it, I didn’t… I don’t know, I was just really trying to get by. I’m sure that it helped a lot. Like, I wasn’t feeling that at the time, and it wasn’t some sort of gorgeous, ya know, not like a caterpillar to butterfly experience. Like, it was just cruddy. And it was just boring, middle of the road cruddy. Like, there was nothing special about it. It was just.. Cruddy. It wasn’t a… “Gorgeous Thing” (wry chuckle). And you know, I don’t feel like the writing was cathartic. I just feel like having to deal with everything was cathartic. But, the writing, even though it didn’t seem like it, I’m sure that it kept me moving forward, ya know? And ah, and when it came time to actually pick the songs, the rehearsal with the band, I didn’t really recognise them that well. So, that was an interesting thing that had never really happened. And, you know, it’s a record about me, which doesn’t usually happen either. I was a little disappointed, ya know, holding that bag (chuckles).

And I was like, this is what I have, it’s about me, I don’t.. I don’t really wanna write like that, or do that, but it’s what I had, and once, ya know, I felt fighting being depressed, and once I decided this is what I have, I have to, you know, do my best with it, and that’s when things kinda started to get okay, and I decided to trust my audience.

MD:  Hopefully you’re feeling better.

NC: Yeah, I feel great. And uh, I feel like I got a lot out of it. But it’s not the way people describe it, where suddenly its Pegasus wings and you’re… It’s just interesting.

M: Well I guess for people who aren’t creative artists, they have this kinda, myth about how wonderful it must be to be able to process your whatever it is you’re going through and make it into something that’s artistic or beautiful or whatever, and of course, I assume that’s not necessarily the case, as you just pointed out.

N.C: “Well, yeah, I think, I think that people sometimes want to make their horrible situations some, some great thing, to make it worth having gone through. But I don’t really think that’s necessary, like, I don’t need to dress it up, or act like its some incredible experience, that “no one else has ever had before, and you’re lucky I’m sharing it with you”. It was just crappy. And shitty. And, ya know, I’m not complaining about it, it is necessary. Like, you can either lead a self-examined life and deal with it, or you can go around it, and numb yourself. And for me, that feels worse, but, ya know, some people choose the other way.

MD:  So when you got into the studio, and found these songs, about you, that you didn’t really recognise, how did you deal with that?

N.C: “Umm, kinda jankedy at first, ya know.  I accepted it, and started to just try to make songs, and that’s when, ya know, being in a band, and working with other people, becomes really helpful and wonderful. And so I just went to work, trying to do the best job I could. And make it sound as good as possible, and you know, just… Trying to do my best. I’m all about service, you know.

MD: Right. You mentioned you wanna keep moving forward, and you are the kind of artist who changes and evolves over the course of career.  How would you say this fits in with what you’ve done previously?

NC: Well, thematically it’s a complete 360. But the actual sounds are, I think, a definite continuation, and I feel that it’s still, you know, related to Middle Cyclone and it’s definitely different. Um, I’ve tried to go ahead and be a little sparser with some things, and a little more basic, Um, but then, ya know, I always end up overdoing it some other way on another song, with way too many tracks and stuff; I can’t really help it!

M: Yeah, I was going to say, I’ve listened to ‘Man’, and I wouldn’t really call that sparse!

NC: No, that one’s, that one’s definitely, not one of the sparse numbers! And I have to say, as you’re in Auckland, New Zealand, it heavily features the Hot Cakes distortion pedal, and I’m very proud.

MD: Oh, great!  And is that M.Ward playing the guitar solo?

NC: Umm, he is one of the people playing the guitar solo. He plays the first part, and then Steve Turner from Mudhoney plays the other part, and then Bo Koster from My Morning Jacket plays another part on piano. And then, ah, I’m doing all the nrnrnr!! (Laughs), and then Paul Rigby is in there, like, everybody is playing on that song. It’s ridiculous and kinda, overindulgent and fun.

MD: From what I understand, the album was recorded in several locations; Tucson, and there were sessions elsewhere. Why do you not record all in one place, why do you choose to move around?

NC: Well, sometimes it’s easier for your collaborators to stay where they are, and then sometimes, like, I, I just take a long time to record, so if I spend too much time in one place, I kinda get burn out easy, I’m pretty ADD, and I need a lot of stimulus. So when I start to get burnt out, I like to take a little time off, go do something else, and then come back to it, either in the place I was, or in a different place. Umm, it’s just good. And um, and for me it’s good to not be home either, cause it’s really easy to get distracted, with, ya know, everyday things, like farming, and animals, and you know, whatever it is you’re doing. You know, just little things. You gotta give that to someone else for responsibility, for a while, to be able to make a good record. Some people can do it, but I’m not one of them!

MD: Well, I can understand how you could get distracted. Getting away is a good thing.  And we have an instance of Neko covering Nico on this album, is that right? You’ve covered one of Nico’s songs, Afraid?

NC: Yes.

MD: And why did you choose that of all of her tunes?

NC: Well, I find that song so sad, and beautiful, but it’s also kinda hopeful. And it’s always really comforted me, that song. And I’d wanted to record it for a long time, but I just felt that it was really appropriate, with the songs that kinda need comforting. Like, the songs themselves need comforting. So I thought that was really appropriate, and I’m just such a huge fan of hers, and she’s really well known with all of her stuff with the Velvet Underground, and, you know, her Chelsea Girl album.  And you know, performing songs by Jackson Browne and etcetera, and I feel like Desertshore is really overlooked. And she wrote it, and nobody in the world sounds like her, and I love her lyrics, and I love her crazy, pump organ sounds, and I dunno, I just think it’s so good, and I just really wanted to do a little tribute.”

MD: Heh, yeah well, it is a beautiful song, I can’t wait to hear your version of it. Are there any other tracks on the album that you prefer to talk about, that you can throw a little light on?

NC: Well, I mean, they kinda run the gamut. I can tell you that Man definitely doesn’t sound like any other song on the record. It’s pretty all over the place. There’s some very very sparse things, there’s one song that’s accapella, Nearly Midnight, Honolulu, um, and then, there’s a song on there that I’ve been working on for like, ten years, that FINALLY got recorded. It basically just had to be boiled down to a guitar and vocals.”

MD: Which one?

NC: ‘I’m From Nowhere’. [chuckles] It used to have all these parts, and finally we were all like, everyone in the middle of it, we were just like, it’s just not right! We can’t kill it, so it’s finally made it on to a record, which felt really good [chuckles]!”

MD: And on the flip side of that, do you get songs that present themselves fully formed?

NC: Hmm…No, not usually. I think, I think the only song that really worked that way musically, was ‘Ragtime’. It really came in together quickly. But lyrically, I had written it over a long, pretty long period of time.

MD: And I see you had Tucker Martine mix the album, is that right?

NC: Yeah, he produced it with me.

MD: You’ve been working with him on a number of different projects, just doing backing vocals…Laura Veirs and Camera Obscura…do you enjoy that scene? What’s going on up there in Portland?

NC: Well, this is the first time I ever worked with him was on my recordings, but we’ve been meeting for years, and I still work with all the other people I normally work with, like Darryl Neudorf. We just really liked what Tucker does, and he really loves women. Like, he really thinks that we are super cool. And that means a lot when you’re going in to do something so naked and weird as make a record, and you know, he’ so, feel-based, and he’s really knowledgeable. He’s a musician himself, and so he knows a lot about pitch and tuning, and just, he’s just really great. And, ya know, I just couldn’t believe he was gonna be working with Camera Obscura, and I was like ‘umm, tell them I can come in if they want me…’, And they did, and so that was awesome. And then, ya know, Laura was in there, right after me. And it was funny cause we, well, it wasn’t, funny, but like, we really had to keep pushing the deadline, and poor Laura was like, 8 ½ months pregnant, and was making her record after that, and I was just like ‘Laura, I’m such a huge fan’, and she was so generous, giving me little bits of her studio time right before she was about to have her baby, I was just so grateful, and I was like, ‘If you want me to grout your bathroom I will, if you want me to play congas I will, I just have so much gratitude for you. It’s like, your husband is basically sewing my prom dress over here, when you’re like, getting ready to have a baby [chuckles], and make a record!’. So, I just really wanted her to know. And I love her music and her songwriting so much, I just really wanted her, like, to be her servant. ‘Anything for you, Laura Veirs, you awesome person!’.

MD: While sitting here, waiting to speak to you, I just got a press release, that her album was on its way out, and I saw your name. But how much bathroom grouting do you do?

NC:I can  do a little grouting here and there! Umm, no one ever takes me up on it! Probably thankfully, yeah.

MD: So what’s happening now; you’re doing some festivals across North America?

NC: Yeah ah, I’m doing Canadian festivals right now, and then a lot of press, and then the record comes out here and New Zealand on the 3rd of September, so, I think maybe it’s the 2nd of September for you.

MD: Yeah, we like to stay one day ahead on everything!

NC: Yes. Yes, you guys got it goin’ on! So um, we, um, me and the band will just be…I think the next 3 months are booked solid. And then I have recording with The New Pornographers in about a week and a half too, cause we’re working on a new record as well.

MD: Well, I hope you will get back here, I think you were here about a year and a half ago.

NC: Yeah, yeah. I cannot wait to get back there. Right after the new year, I think we’re going there.

Listen to Man from The Worse Things Get… here: