Ry Cooder: "I didn’t even know we were recording the damn thing!" (Interview)

Ry Cooder has just released a new, live album. It’s only his second in a career that spans over 40 years. Like it’s predecessor, 1976’s Show Time, Live In San Francisco was recorded at The Great American Music Hall. The 13th Floor spoke to Ry Cooder about the recording of the new album and how he and his music has changed over the intervening years.

You can listen to the Ry Cooder interview here:

MD: Congratulations on the live album, it’s been awhile!

RC: Yes, thank you!

MD: One thing I noticed about the recording is the way that the audience is mixed right up front and they almost become part of the performance. I was wondering if you did that on purpose, or if they were just in there everywhere and you couldn’t get rid of them?

RC: Well, the place is small. What it is it’s an old um, old music hall from the late 1800s, and uh, it’s the kinda place they don’t build anymore, it’s uh, really fine, it’s uh, pretty. It’s been restored, rather than torn down, it has box seats up the top like they used to have, all around. There’s only about 600 people in there, and uh, it’s a live sorta room, like they used to have in the pre-sound system days, so uh, so everybody can hear. But the consequence is you hear everybody!

MD: (chuckles), it goes both ways!

RC: But it’s nice too uh, a lot of the feel in the music of the room too, in other words the horns, there’s 18 people on stage sometimes, so there’s uh, a nice sound in the room that way. Otherwise you might uh, you know, it would sound, it might sound like a studio record, so I think it should sound like it sounds, you know, it’s powerful, a lot of, a lot of air being moved around in there.

MD: Righto. And so those shows took place August and September of 2011;

RC: Two days to be exact.

MD: Right, and does anything in particular stand out about those shows in your mind, two years later?

 RC: (Chuckles) Well, just the fact that ah, one fact of it is, well, ya know, it was an experiment to see if the Banda-style horn band could fit in with what were, with what I’m sorta used to doing, and if so, what would it be like? In other words, it’s completely radical to have Mexican Banda Orchestra, horn band up there on stage, mixed with that kinda stuff that I do you see. And I thought that this is exciting music, most people, most..white people should we say, non-Hispanic, they’ve never heard of Banda, they don’t know what it is, and it exists in another strata of society if you like, and ah, and so…you turn that loose in a place like that, they play so loud, they ah, have such chops on those horns, that its absolutely just spine tingling, ya know? It’s not like anything you’re used to hearing and so it’s pretty exciting. So I just wanted to, one thing I wanted to do was just try it, and see if I liked it, and see what the audience thought of it. It’s.. it was an experiment is really what it was.

MD: And I assume you consider that experiment successful?

RC: Oh I loved it, I thought it was terrific. The audience just went crazy for it. See, they didn’t know the horn players were even there, because we had hidden them up on these second floor boxes, out of sight, so  the audience, because you couldn’t fit em all on stage, so the audience didn’t know they were there until they hit the first tune. And then the lights went on, and oh man. In fact, there were people sitting up there, and they didn’t know! So the audience had no, uh, no advance warning on this. And when it turns loose, it’s like a train going through the place! So it’s very dramatic, very exciting, like a circus ya know.

MD: It sounds like it was amazing. And you just get the vibe that everybody’s having a great time for the whole duration of the thing!

RC: Sure, you bet! Absolutely true, yeah.

MD: And I really got a feel that the energy level went up even more once Flaco came on stage.

RC: Well, every time you add something to this, then of course, people know who he is, I mean, especially that Bay Area audience. You see,, we’d been there in the early 70s, was the first time I went out with, ah, Flaco, on tour, with his band from San Antonio, and that was in the 70s, and nobody had ever seen anything like it, a Conjunto band, with singers from LA and me, all mixed together. In those days, that was considered pretty unusual. And now days, you wouldn’t think twice. But in those days, that was that was an unusual configuration. So we played in that place, and recorded a live record there, what now, ah, 35 odd years ago, and uh, since that time, Flaco has become quite well known to that audience, that’s a great music audience there; in fact, there were people there that claimed to me, that came up to me and said “Well I was there 35 years ago, I saw the… A couple of us were the same…Terry Evans was there.  My son Joaquin hadn’t even been born! So it gives you an idea, a generation later here some of us are, one more time.

MD: And I’m curious to how you think you’ve changed or evolved as a performer, or a musician, in the time between the two live albums?

RC: Well, I would uh, it’s uh, after playing this kind of music all my life, uh, I can tell you without a doubt that I’m uh, that I’ve gotten better at it. I mean, you’re supposed to get better! If you stick with it. I mean, that’s one thing about being a musician, and playing instruments; the longer you do it, the more understanding, the more capability, the more uh, you get out of it. I mean, I think that uh, I think it’s true. I think the idea’s still good, I like the concept, the musical blend is working still, it suits me, and I like, uh, my ears like what they hear, but for myself, I’m playing a whole lot better than I used to. Ya know, I’m 66 now, so um, I’m getting to where I like it (Chuckles)!

MD: (Chuckles) That’s nice! And I’m kinda curious about the connection you have with Terry Evans. You mention of course he was back in the 70s playing with you, and of course he is still with you. What is the attraction; why do you choose him to work with as opposed to anyone else?

RC: Well, when you find somebody you feel a kinship with musically, you stick with em, ya know, Flaco for instance, Terry. Bobby King was also part of that older, original group, but he, Bobby went back to Lake Charles, Louisiana, where he’s from, and became a Minister!

MD: Ah, we lost him to religion!

RC: He’s not allowed anymore, but we have Arnold McCuller now, and uh, I’ve been working with him for some years, and he’s great, ya know. But, about, the thing I like you see, is some of the people I work with, I seen em almost all my adult life, and some of them are younger. My son Joaquin, and then we’ve got Juliet’s brother Robert on bass, so you have a different age group, and different people, but it feels right. I really like this configuration best of all, so I’m hoping we can do it some more, you know, get out there and do it some more.

MD: Yeah, have you done any shows since then?

RC: No! (Laughs) No, I got busy ah, doing these political records, I got concentrated on that for a while, and now that this is out, and people, ya know, if we get some good response, I’m gonna go and try to enlarge the repertoire a little, get the horns in on some other things perhaps, not as much obvious Mexican sounding stuff, but see what else they can do. That’d be nice. And then see if we can put something together that’s feasible. Because it’s an awful lot of people ya know, it might be hard to travel with that many.

MD: Yeah, but at the same time, it’d be fantastic to take that show on the road I think.

RC: Oh yeah, I mean, if you can afford it, oh yeah!

MD: Yeah! I loved some of the song selection. For instance, hearing a man in his mid-60s singing ‘School Is Out’ is just fantastic!

RC: It’s a great song, it’s really a good song. I always loved that song, it just swings! There’s something about it, the chorus, is just one of the best chorus’s. You know we used to write songs like that, with these hooky little chorus’s, you could tell that not a professional songwriter had done this, but somebody who thought this was true (chuckles)! It’s personal, but it’s appealing, and it works perfectly. The horns sound so good on that, they really catch a groove on that thing, and its fun to play that tune. Some of em, ah, I like to play things on stage that are fun to play. Ya know, you don’t wanna, don’t wanna get too complex. If it gets too hard then it’s too much work, and ah, everybody, everybody kinda feels…ah, scared, ya know? You don’t wanna scare people, let’s try to have some fun here. So the song selection really has to do with what works best on stage, pretty much.

MD: Right, and I get the feeling you are delving into your own record collection and finding stuff that connected with you, at some point in your life, and took it from there?

RC: Well, yes, somewhat so. Ah, I asked Joaquin, he’s sorta an archivist at heart, and I said what should we do? What should we play? And he says, well, you wanna do Boomer’s Story, you never do that on stage. And I said ohh, that’s a tough one, that’s slow, oh…let’s see if we can work it out though! He wanted to hear that, and uh, he wanted to hear  Goodnight Irene, and of course everybody likes that, so that’s an old favourite of everybody’s, and yeah, it, it feels like a pretty good repertoire. There were some tunes we did that we didn’t include on the CD, they didn’t fit, they ah, but I’m gonna keep trying to get the repertoire pushed out a little bit, see what we can do.

MD: There seems to be a revival of interest in some of these old folk songs, ya know, from the 30s, 40s and 50s. Along with you, Bob Dylan has been one of the people who have shone some light on some of those. I don’t know if you’ve heard his new re-issue of ‘Another Self Portrait’, where he was doing them back in the 1970 and nobody wanted to hear them then, there seems to be an audience for them now.

RC: I’d say that’s probably right, younger people now ah, like those songs, for the same reason we used to like em, ya know, in other words, they  say something about our world and society, that is still true, even more true than before, and uh, you could take Vigilante Man and write all new kinds of lyrics, and you’d be…I’ve got some Trayvon Martin verses that go… and everybody understands exactly what you’re talking about.  So the fact that those songs had meaning and relevance back then, seem to be finding, pretty easily, finding the same relevance now, and the audience of young people who are confronted by all these social problems and issues, they say yes, I like that, ya know, that’s telling me something I like. So, it’s useful still, it’s really good to see.

MD: I notice there are only two songs that made it onto the CD from your recent album at that time. Do you find it difficult to work those songs into a live show, because they are more about serious subjects?

RC: No, no no. You need more opportunity. You see, we didn’t have any time to, hardly any time to prepare this. So I didn’t have a whole lot of rehearsal time, so I had to pick some simple things that I knew would work. Then of course, one night, the ah, Joaquin said hey, let’s just  do the, ah, White Man (Lord Tell Me Why) song. Ya know, do something with that. So I was in sound check, for the night, on the second night, and I said all right, all right, let’s see. Let’s see how we’re gonna do this. You can’t worry too hard about repeating the version on the record, which is spontaneous as well. So he said, well, let’s try something different. So I started hitting the groove,  he liked it, so we said well, okay, let’s do it that way. Then by the time the set rolls around in the evening, I already forgot how it went! So we said, well, we’ll just wing it! But that gives another spontaneous feeling, which of course the audience enjoys, because it’s like theater. They see, ya know, I think they know and they see, that we’re kinda just thrashing it out on stage, ya know, that we’re all good enough to do that, so it’s kinda exciting. It’s fun that way.

MD: Yeah, and I think it also made the song fit in with the vibe of the other things that you were doing around it.

RC: Well yeah, sure. That’s your live show for ya. You have to do, you have to have continuity, you should, if you’re smart. And then you make things work and fit. If they don’t work and fit, then don’t do em! Haha! And ah, at the same time, well, that one didn’t work so well, so let’s try somethin’ else! But uh, one thing I like about the San Francisco audience is there very kind, ya see. They’ll let you go on with what you’re going on with, and pretty much get into it, I have to say. So you know you’re at home, you’re safe. You’re not gonna get like, tomatoes thrown at you and a bunch of people walking out, heh, that’s probably not gonna happen.

MD: Well, I was wondering why somebody would only record 2 live albums in a 40 year career, and both at the same venue, but that explains it I guess!

RC: Yeah, well, I don’t ah, usually like live recordings particularly. I mean, I find it, unless you’re Louis Armstrong or somebody, and I don’t play out that much, and of course… but this show, you see, it had such a, such a strong sound that I thought that this will probably  will go. But I’ll tell you something, I didn’t ah, didn’t know we were even recording the damn thing! Martin Pradler, the engineer, had a digital board in there, and all you have to do is push record, and it’s automatic. And he didn’t tell me, and I’m glad he didn’t, but after we came back home to Los Angeles, he said, by the way, I recorded that! (Laughs) I said really? I said was it any good? He said I haven’t listened to it. But a little time went by, and then he and I sat and listened to it, and I did think, wait a minute, ya know, this is, this is good. Usually I’m worried, live, can be so sloppy and so messy, and not what you’re after, but this one I felt ohh, this is good, this has got something to it, let’s put this out, ya know.

MD: Yeah, yeah. So what’s next? Are you working on studio material, are you trying to put this show on the road? What’s gonna happen next?

RC: Well, I’m gonna try to figure out a way to do this… as I say, if it’s feasible, if it’s portable. And ah, it’s one thing to drive 400 miles to San Francisco in a couple of vans, but to think of doing it say 4-5 times a week, over a 4-5 week period, that’s a whole other story. For this you need ball bearings, you need to be on ball bearings, you need to know exactly what you’re going to do. You can’t just wing everything, its terrorizing if you do that. I’ve gotta be sure of certain things, availability of people of course, and uh, I have to say, Flaco’s not really in shape to do that. So we’re gonna have to think about who plays accordion. So that’s a daunting task right there. But ah, I am gonna see what I can do. I’m ah, pretty, I’m hopeful I can find a good traveling version of this. Otherwise, besides that, you know, I’m always looking for something to do, some project, something that’s interesting, I keep writing songs, I’m sitting in my chair writing songs, but I am gonna see what I can do about this.

MD: And of course, you’ve done so much topical material lately, and the world seems to keep throwing up more possibilities for songs, I can just imagine you sitting there scribbling down stuff left and right!

RC: Well, that’s true. Ah, I got to where I was kinda starting to ah, get ground down by it, because it was making mad, ya know and my Chinese needle doctor, ya know, acupuncture, she said stop that! (Laughs) She goes, you’re hurting yourself! I said okay, I pull back, She says pull back, don’t take it so personally. So I go, oh all right, that’s good advice. But still, ya know.

MD: You were here, you played at our version of The Great American Music Hall, The Civic Theatre a few years back, with Nick Lowe. I don’t know if you remember much of that gig or they all just blur together, but it was an amazing show, and I was wondering if we would see you down here again? Because you had Joaquin and Juliet with you at that point?

RC: Yes. Well, there ah, there here and they’re part of it. I’d like to do it, I’d like to find a way, but well, we just have to sorta assemble this thing, ya know. Now that I see that it works, and it works well, it’s just a matter of ah, building a vehicle that can get down the road and hold together!

MD: I guess it’s different than it used to be, when the record company would sort of fund things…

RC: Oh, forget about that! You’re on your own now, and every mile is a, is, ah, the meters ticking. And so it’s very expensive. Especially when you start adding a lot of people, and start running up the expenses. Ya have to kinda know what you’re getting into.

 Click here to read the 13th Floor review of Ry Cooder’s Live In San Francisco album.